[Newsbot]

Title: New York poised to pass free public college tuition statewide
Category: Uncle Sam
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2017-04-10 11:47:05

[DrCaleb]

Sounds like Communism.

[BeaverFever]

It's a nice break from the permanent austerity/poverty-for-all policies of the right-wingers and Clinton/Chretien-Martin fake liberals

[DrCaleb]

I read a joke recently of how a coyote was spotted on a University campus and by the time it had run across the Quad it had $15,000 in student debt.

It would be strange not to saddle youth with all that burden.

[Lemmy]

Just because you don't pay a bill doesn't make it free. We don't have free healthcare either.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Just because you don't pay a bill doesn't make it free. We don't have free healthcare either.

My thoughts exactly.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Just because you don't pay a bill doesn't make it free. We don't have free healthcare either.

My thoughts exactly.

But in both cases, the public is better off because society chooses to improve itself. Kids get a decent education without being saddled with decades of debt, becoming higher income and higher bracket tax payers; and the public gets better health outcomes without a similarly long term debt. Instead of it costing individuals everything, it costs everyone a little.

Win/win.

[BartSimpson]

1. They're not getting a decent education. They're getting a leftist indoctrination.

2. Where are the public trade schools?

3. The notion that everyone has to have a college degree is bullshit.

4. The schools would be instantly cheaper if the government stopped backing student loans. They'd also be less crowded.

5. The banks will oppose the New York plan because they love the money they make on student loans.

6. Nothing will change.

[martin14]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

6. Nothing will change.

One thing will change.

The quality of a New York college education and the value to employers
will drop... a lot.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

1. They're not getting a decent education. They're getting a leftist indoctrination.

See! There you go with the rhetoric! Education (healthcare) will still be delivered by the same people (professors/doctors) so why does it matter who pays for it?

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

2. Where are the public trade schools?
3. The notion that everyone has to have a college degree is bullshit.

I quite agree. I think they should be 'free' long before universities. But I don't vote in New York sooo . . .

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

4. The schools would be instantly cheaper if the government stopped backing student loans. They'd also be less crowded.

I am also inclined to agree. Many more people would and should be drawn to the trades rather than a University education they may not need.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

5. The banks will oppose the New York plan because they love the money they make on student loans.

You say that like it's a bad thing? No one has a right to make a profit. Especially those bastards!

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

6. Nothing will change.

It might. We don't know what the effect of more educated people in the workplace will be. With the trend to automation in labour intensive tasks, perhaps more people will be employable in 'white collar' work.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

We don't know what the effect of more educated people in the workplace will be.

Yes, we do. Unless there's a demand for more educated people then the resulting oversupply of college graduates will cause salaries to decline.

It also results in too many people obtaining degrees for fields in which they will never find work.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

6. Nothing will change.

One thing will change.

The quality of a New York college education and the value to employers
will drop... a lot.

You're going to need to explain that one. They're not changing the academic requirements numbskull, so why would that change the value of the degree?

Considering you probably don't even have a complete high school education, much less a college one, I'm really interested to find out how you think you know anything on the topic.

[prairiechickin]

I oppose the idea of free tuition under most circumstance. Here's why.

I did three degrees across Canada over 14 years, and the tuition was the least of my worries. It was a lump sum at the beginning, always sort of fixed, you paid it, and then got on with surviving for the rest of the semester. Tuition didn't cause me much pain, it was the last six weeks that used to do me in.

I taught a lot of those years I was learning, and realized roughly 25% of those undergrads are cruising on daddy's dime, and just there for the beer and the sex. I saw way too many of that breed, and the MA students you couldn't chase out to the real world, to encourage free tuition. The fees you pay as a student only cover a third of the cost of the university, the rest is paid by federal/provincial taxes anyway. Don't make it any easier for the slackers to hide out. They only clutter up the real learning that's going on there.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

1. They're not getting a decent education. They're getting a leftist indoctrination.

Nonsense. The political spectrum plays no role in curriculum. Mathematics, grammar, science are what they are. Learning them isn't indoctrination. If you want to see indoctrination in public education, you need to look to right-leaning jurisdictions that put religious hocus-pocus on the curriculum at the expense of objective education, like Texas.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

2. Where are the public trade schools?

"Education" and "job training" are not the same thing. Learning literature, for example, has its value in being educated. Even though the skills learned by studying history or literature aren't directly related to a specific job, those problem-solving and logic skills are absolutely essential to performing a task. I'd rather the population be educated than job-trained.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

3. The notion that everyone has to have a college degree is bullshit.

True, but as I said above, education and job-training are different things. Being educated is beneficial to all. Increasingly, personnel experts are preferring to hire people with education rather than job-training. It used to be that a History degree got you nothing unless you wanted to teach history. But nowadays, bosses recognize that a history major brings something that an engineering major does not and a history student may be a better employee, even if they need to be trained in engineering on-the-job than someone with an engineering degree because they learned to THINK along the way.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

4. The schools would be instantly cheaper if the government stopped backing student loans. They'd also be less crowded.

It's more complicated than that.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

5. The banks will oppose the New York plan because they love the money they make on student loans.

So?

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

6. Nothing will change.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

We don't know what the effect of more educated people in the workplace will be.

Yes, we do. Unless there's a demand for more educated people then the resulting oversupply of college graduates will cause salaries to decline.

It also results in too many people obtaining degrees for fields in which they will never find work.

There's ALWAYS demand for educated people. There's no such thing as an oversupply of college graduates. Not sure what logic you're using that would predict falling salaries as a result of increasing education. And, there's no such thing as too many people obtaining degrees for anything. Being educated is the desired outcome, not being employed.

[Coach85]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You're going to need to explain that one. They're not changing the academic requirements numbskull, so why would that change the value of the degree?

Considering you probably don't even have a complete high school education, much less a college one, I'm really interested to find out how you think you know anything on the topic.

It's a similar situation to what we have in Ontario. So many university and college grads working entry level jobs outside of their field of study because so many people are entering the workforce with that level of education.

While it's great to have an educated population, that piece of paper doesn't matter much anymore because everyone has one.

Giving everyone a 'free' education will saturate the market with graduates and the value of that piece of paper will continually be in decline.