[Thanos]

At this point in that bastard's ruinous regime I wouldn't be surprised at all if he'd like to carve up Canada like Hitler did to Czechoslovakia and the give Mexico the same treatment Poland got. I'm not kidding with this one, not after the G-7. Trump has as much genuine malice in his heart towards the world as any of the damn monsters from the 20th century bloodbaths did.

[Caelon]

There is a lot of rhetoric going on and precious little in objective comparison.

There has been documentaries on the woes of the American farmer due to no supply management. Canada does have a supply managment system that negates the need of government subsides. There are barriers to entry to prevent oversupply. The farmers in poultry and dairy make a living without the income variations of the pork and beef industries. Dismantalling supply management would throw the Canadian farmer into the same mess the US farmers are experiencing. You do not fix a problem by replacing a working system with a broken one.

Neither Trump nor Trudeau is lily white in what has happened to date. Most of Trump's rhetoric and tweets are based on information taken out of context. All countries have complicated internal economics that are not easy to modify without having unintended concequences.

Here is an article by a US market analyst with decent credentials.

Stylistic Success Likely at Summit; Trade War Will intensify
June 11, 2018

TO OUR MANY FRIENDS IN CANADA: We have visited your wonderful country over 100 times in the past four decades, always impressed with the vibrancy of your cities and the decency of your people. Thus we are embarrassed that a thug in the Trump Administration proclaimed yesterday that "there's a special place in hell" for Justin Trudeau.
LIKE MOST OF TRUMP'S SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS, this will backfire -- Trudeau's political standing will soar. Canadians ranging from former Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper to new Ontario leader Doug Ford have rallied to his defense. Canada will impose more tariffs; the trade war will get worse before it gets better.
SEETHING ANGER TOWARD THE U.S. will infect all of Western Europe, led by Germany -- Trump apparently is furious to see so many German cars in America. Imagine the chills in the Baltics to hear Larry Kudlow shrug off Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine. "So be it," Kudlow said, asserting that it's more important to do business with Russia, which in 2016 shot down a civilian aircraft.
THE ONLY EXCUSE for yesterday's appalling rhetoric from hyped-up Kudlow and trade thug Peter Navarro is that they wanted to project a hard line ahead of the Korea summit. After one spectacular failure, in Quebec, they can hardly afford another. So they're talking tough -- as if U.S. rhetoric would really worry murderous North Korean dictator Kim Jong un.
BOTH TRUMP AND KIM NEED A VICTORY and we think the summit will be a stylistic success -- plenty of happy photos and assurances to continue negotiating. Substantively, we don't expect much -- maybe an agreement to officially declare an end of the Korean War; an uneasy truce began in 1953. But de-nuclearization and unification of the two Koreas are not imminent.
FOR THE FINANCIAL MARKETS, the likelihood of a reasonably successful Korean summit is bullish; prospects of war have diminished. But the sugar high of smiling photo ops will eventually fade -- what won't fade is the bitter fight between the U.S. and our closest allies.
NEITHER TRUDEAU NOR MACRON NOR MERKEL will relent; they will raise tariffs dramatically, and this will cause anxiety in the U.S. farm belt and among multinational companies, which will struggle to make long-range plans as trade sanctions start to bite.
THE U.S. ECONOMIC FUNDAMENTALS ARE STILL GREAT, so the Federal Reserve will raise rates this Wednesday; that's a no-brainer. But there are two major long-term uncertainties -- when will the Fed stop, and when will the trade war subside? Unfortunately, there are no clear answers to either of these questions.

Greg Valliere, MBA, CFA
Chief Global Strategist, Horizon Investments

Greg Valliere is the Chief Political Strategist at Horizon Investments and has nearly 40 years of experience following Washington issues for institutional and retail investors. He is widely quoted in U.S. media and specializes in coverage of the Federal Reserve, tax and spending issues, and – of course – politics.

[herbie]

How many jobs would be lost in Bellingham if Canadians could buy American milk at SaveOn?
Or those nasty marketing boards just upped quotas and let prices slide to counter?
Or God forbid, they allowed no hormone, antibiotic free, pasteurized milk in duty free...

[BeaverFever]

Seth nails it

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

llama66 llama66:

We open our dairy and agriculture to US markets it will affect thousands of family farms across Canada.

They don't care in the slightest. They want to do to Canada what they did to Mexico after NAFTA was first signed, in that the Mexican agricultural economy was effectively destroyed because it couldn't compete with the massively-subsidized American farm products that suddenly flooded Mexico. If they can't destroy a country militarily, as they did to Vietnam and Iraq, they'll do it economically. And that's either through the loud boisterous way they did to the Cubans for the unforgivable "crime" of kicking the Mafia out of their country, or they'll do it the quiet way through a one-sided trade deal like the one that victimized Mexico. And on top of it they're such a bunch of fucking snowflakes that they'll endlessly spout how they're the "real victims" in all of this.

What in the hell are you talking about? My supermarkets are full of fruits and vegetables from Mexico. Products like guava, mango, chili peppers, avocado, jicama,tomatillo, etc., etc. Products that have never been grown commercially in the U.S. Wasn't that you a while back that was sounding the alarm about how high the cost of fruits and vegetable would be in the U.S. if the U.S. cracked down on the illegal immigrants in the U.S.? Now you are bitching about how cheap American fruits and vegetables are destroying Mexico. Pick a side already. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You talk about how a one sided trade deal victimized Mexico. I call bullshit!!! Lots of American factories have moved south of the border due to NAFTA. Name one Mexican factory that has set up shop in the U.S. One? Was that not you on here a few months back rejoicing in the fact that the Carrier air conditioning factory was going back on their word to not move their factory to Mexico? You did not care in the slightest that Americans were losing their jobs as long as you had some talking points to take a shot at Trump. Note that those jobs were moving south of the border not north, so spare us your bullshit about how Mexico got fucked in the deal.

You talk about how we destroy countries economically. You mean like that whole Marshall Plan thing? Yeah we really screwed them over when they were down didn't we? Or that whole cold war thing. At the end of WW2 Canada had the third largest navy in the world. What happened?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... splacement
Now you hang out with the likes of Chile, Peru, Vietnam for fucks sake. You had no problem letting us do the heavy lifting and picking up the tab during the cold war. You had no problem Monday morning quarterbacking as long as you didn't have to belly up to the bar and pay. No one contributes more financial aid than the U.S. No one. When the shit hits the fan no one dips into their wallets to contribute, or shows up on the scene to help out more than Americans. No one.

You talk about how we punished Cuba for kicking out the Mafia, like that is all they did. The fact is that Cuba stole property from American companies and the stockholders without compensation. The fact of the matter is that the Mafia only owned a few hotels and casinos, not the whole country. You cannot blame the Mafia for the whole country being a third world shithole. Latin America was corrupt long before the Mafia came along. The Cubans who worked in those establishments had a better life than the people working in the hotels in Cuba today. The people who visited those establishments back than (as in Americans) actually tipped!!! They were not a bunch of cheapskates staying in all inclusives leaving their wallet at home. I live and work in a city that was built by the mob. Let me tell you for a fact that no one (who is not a cop or a G-Man) who lived and worked in Vegas is going to tell you that things are better now without the mob. The workers were treated very well. They lived very well. Ask our old mayor: Oscar Goodman. He was a lawyer for the mob. We all knew it, and we still voted for him anyway. No visitor to Vegas that was coming to Vegas when the mob ran things is going to tell you that things are better now with corporate America running the show. Gamblers used to get their rooms, food, and shows comped. They had good gambling that had good odds. Blackjack payed 2 to 3 instead of 6 to 5 or even money like today. Vegas had class when the mob ran things. Now the casinos would throw their own mother out on the street to save a buck. Latin America is full of poverty ridden third world shitholes. You can't put that on the Mafia. That said I was opposed to the embargo because it had been going on forever and it was not working. It was like telling a child that he could not go to bed until he ate all of his vegetables, and 50 years later he is still sitting there. We were right to do something at first. We were foolish to not know when to quit. Innocent people were suffering due to Casto's and our foolishness. We should have been the better man and stepped up a long time ago. We should have done that, but lets not make it look like we were picking on innocent Cuba. You are on here claiming that tariffs are an act of war. What would you do if we actually stole your property without compensation? You want to get all pumped up about some tariffs on aluminum claiming that this war,but we are just supposed to let Cuba steal our shit with no repercussions? I call bullshit.

You hate the SOB in the Whitehouse, we get it. That is your right. Hate away. I do not have a problem with that. I do have a problem with you not getting your facts straight, and you trying to paint us all with the same brush. I made a post on here a few days ago about how I thought this trade war with our allies was a bunch of bullshit. A large amount (probably a vast majority) of Americans think the same way. I heard the applause when Seth was giving his monologue. I do not appreciate you telling me that I want to destroy Canada like I have destroyed Mexico. I have destroyed neither, nor do I wish to.

[llama66]

$1:

guava, mango, chili peppers, avocado, jicama,tomatillo, etc., etc.

Remind me, which of these are indigenous to Canada?

The discussion is about Canada's Dairy Supply Management System and apparent double standard the United States has on agriculture.

The Marshall Plan had nothing to do with Canada's navy, the Marshall Plan was the reconstruction of Europe. Our Navy dwindled because of rising costs and because we weren't fighting wars across the planet.

$1:

,but we are just supposed to let Cuba steal our shit with no repercussions? I call bullshit.

A non-US initiated regime change? The people rising up to oust a corrupt leader beholden to foreign interests? Cuba was never part of the US. The People had a revolution and you and the mob lost your influence. Cuba's resources belong to Cuba.

$1:

No one contributes more financial aid than the U.S. No one.

Unless we count the EU or China.

Unless you are Donald Trump, I don't think you or Bart want to destroy Canada. However the "gentleman" you chose to lead your nation is very much acting like a spoiled petulant child. Our leader said Canada and Canadians will not be be pushed around by this President, your leader chose to throw a temper tantrum.

I'm sorry if you have offense with this, but, we will not be pushed around.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

I'm sorry if you have offense with this, but, we will not be pushed around.

As has been written before - "Don't confuse our politeness with weakness".

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

xerxes xerxes:

Which explains why Trump...alienated his allies.

They were never his allies.

Given that their friendship to the USA was conditioned on their choice of who we elected as President then they were never really America's allies either.

You're correct, they were never TRUMP's allies, they were your country's allies.

Support for the US from Europe and Canada may have waxed and waned over the past seventy years under different US presidents, but it wasn't until Trump that the G-7 got thrown under the bus and run over multiple times for 'national security reasons', while the US president campaigned for Russia to be re-admitted to the G-7 after annexing part of a neighbouring country as well as driving a wedge between the US and its allies.

+5 for being the only person so far to actually ready my comment and comprehend it without jumping to a totally emotional conclusion.

Now I have no idea WTF Trump is after with his comment to the G7 to bring Russia back. The only thing I can think of is that he wants to use it as a carrot to get them to dial down the war in Ukraine and withdraw from that country.

Myself, there's no way in hell I'd let the Russians back into any Western organization until they get the fuck out of Ukraine including occupied Crimea.

Of course, Trump may have been using this as an opportunity to point out European hypocrisy on Russian sanctions. If they take the troll by criticizing Trump over the comment then they have to come face to face with the fact that they won't enforce sanctions when there's money to be made by trading with Russia.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/ ... 1185605f4b

Prediction: Europe Will Keep Ignoring Washington Sanctions On Russian Pipeline Nord Stream II

[Zipperfish]

Caelon Caelon:

There is a lot of rhetoric going on and precious little in objective comparison.

Well I guess Trump can be blamed for that. It's not easy to piss o0ff Canada, but he managed. Even God is pissed off-gave Kudlow a heart attack.

We won't get pushed around.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

llama66 llama66:

I'm sorry if you have offense with this, but, we will not be pushed around.

As has been written before - "Don't confuse our politeness with weakness".

Likewise, the USA is not going to be pushed around either. We have a global trade imbalance approaching US $1 trillion annually and that's not sustainable. Trump is the first US President since Reagan to deal with trade and insist that any such deal be fair to the USA.

Canada's supply management policy is fine and dandy for Canada. But the fact of the matter is that all we see on the US side of the border are the astronomical tariffs.

And like I've said before what Canada needs to do is to start dismantling the tax and regulatory structures that make your industries noncompetitive with those of the US or the EU.

Maybe you can't match us on subsidies but you can offset that advantage by making it easier for your farmers and ranchers to prosper. Mexico is absolutely kicking our asses on all sorts of farm products and they don't subsidize a damned thing. AND all of the imported food from Mexico is meeting US sanitary standards.

No reason Canada can't do the same thing.

[BartSimpson]

Oh, and just wait until Trump starts to go to work on our trade policy with China.

That's shaping up to be epic.

[llama66]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Likewise, the USA is not going to be pushed around either. We have a global trade imbalance approaching US $1 trillion annually and that's not sustainable. Trump is the first US President since Reagan to deal with trade and insist that any such deal be fair to the USA.

Canada's supply management policy is fine and dandy for Canada. But the fact of the matter is that all we see on the US side of the border are the astronomical tariffs.

And like I've said before what Canada needs to do is to start dismantling the tax and regulatory structures that make your industries noncompetitive with those of the US or the EU.

Maybe you can't match us on subsidies but you can offset that advantage by making it easier for your farmers and ranchers to prosper. Mexico is absolutely kicking our asses on all sorts of farm products and they don't subsidize a damned thing. AND all of the imported food from Mexico is meeting US sanitary standards.

No reason Canada can't do the same thing.

Those regulations protected us the time Wall Street almost imploded the world economy.

Canadian's would rather you not wipe our dairy industry out with a proverbial tsunami of unregulated surplus milk.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

llama66 llama66:

I'm sorry if you have offense with this, but, we will not be pushed around.

As has been written before - "Don't confuse our politeness with weakness".

Likewise, the USA is not going to be pushed around either. We have a global trade imbalance approaching US $1 trillion annually and that's not sustainable. Trump is the first US President since Reagan to deal with trade and insist that any such deal be fair to the USA.

Canada's supply management policy is fine and dandy for Canada. But the fact of the matter is that all we see on the US side of the border are the astronomical tariffs.

And what Trump isn't telling you that most of our 'supply management' sectors allow a percentage through without tariffs. It's only when those percentages are exceeded that imports are scaled back. 30% of dairy for example comes though tariff free.

$1:

Canada allows imported dairy to make up as much as 10 per cent of the market, while the U.S. only allows up to three per cent. Trade between the two countries on dairy favours the U.S. by a margin of five to one, Wiens said

With a population smaller than California, Canada makes up a fraction of the U.S. market. The state of Wisconsin produces more dairy than all of Canada, Wiens said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/ ... -1.4700781

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And like I've said before what Canada needs to do is to start dismantling the tax and regulatory structures that make your industries noncompetitive with those of the US or the EU.

Why? We don't need to compete with them, we need to be able to produce enough for us to feed ourselves, and the rest we export.

Why is it a cotton farmer in Africa can't produce cotton cheaper than he can buy it from the US? Subsidies.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... ica-cotton

Is the US going to drop subsidies to that the EU and Canada can compete with US farmers? Well, there is your answer.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Maybe you can't match us on subsidies but you can offset that advantage by making it easier for your farmers and ranchers to prosper. Mexico is absolutely kicking our asses on all sorts of farm products and they don't subsidize a damned thing. AND all of the imported food from Mexico is meeting US sanitary standards.

No reason Canada can't do the same thing.

We don't produce the same things that Mexico does. And if people keep dying from raw vegetables, how is that meeting any sanitary standard?

Our farmers had a way to prosper without subsidies. It was called the Wheat Board.

[BartSimpson]

llama66 llama66:

Canadian's would rather you not wipe our dairy industry out with a proverbial tsunami of unregulated surplus milk.

I get it. And import quotas would be more acceptable in a trade deal than tariffs.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And like I've said before what Canada needs to do is to start dismantling the tax and regulatory structures that make your industries noncompetitive with those of the US or the EU.

.

No we don't need to do that at all. I think that's the message we're sending quite clearly.