[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

Yeah, but ya can't bring up anymore that men would never get let off that easily

I didn't get off because he's a man, he got off because we have a stupid justice system with regard to mental illness.

That same statement would go for infanticide. They don't get off because they are women with PPD, but because we have a stupid justice system.

Then we're agreed. He shouldn't get off, and neither should those women.

[BeaverFever]

andyt andyt:

I accept that. I don't accept that they can be insane to the point of killing and Heallluuuud, the next year. I think anybody that kills and is found not criminally responsible (thanks, Gunnair) should be given a life sentence - meaning they are on parole for the rest of their life, and spend a minimum of say 5 years in a forensic institute for treatment. I think this guy snuck one past the legals system, and if he was Joe Mullet from trailerville he'd be sitting and rotting in the prison system.

If you agree this guy should get out after one year, then you should also agree that a guy strung out on PCP or meth was also crazy at the time and as soon as he comes down is heallluuuud as well.

Anyway, next up the mom who drowned her two kids in Edmonton - she's pled not guilty, not sure if that allows her to claim not criminally responsible as well.

I have no problem with keeping insane or mentally challenged people in a facility as long as is required to protect the public or to return them to normal. I'll admit it does seem like a pretty brief stay in the loony bin,to "cure" homicidal tendencies but then again, I'm not a psychiatrist. In how short of a time could someone possibly make full recovery? 2 years? 10 years? 5 years? 80 years? Only an expert reviewing that specific individual's case and treatment would know. All I know is that it definitely shouldn't be decided by 'mob rule' from the street. If this shrink's conclusions are so absurd, then surely the scientific community will object.

Are you and Brenda saying that everytime your senile old uncle wanders out in the front yard naked or shoplifts some tin foil to protect himself from alien brain waves they should be arrested and serve out a criminal sentence?

[andyt]

You're drawing an equivilancy between shoplifting and murder? Where's sandorski when we need him? If that senile old uncle is grabbing at the little kids that walk by, then you bet I want him locked up where he can't do it again. I'm not big on punishment anyway, I'm big on keeping society safe.

You should be old enough to have noticed how poor psychiatry is at predicting human behavior. There are no actual physical tests to indicate this guy is "cured". Depression we know is very often a recurring illness. If this guy gets so depressed over a divorce that he goes psychotic, what other life's stressors are going to send him over the edge? At the very least, he should be put on SSRI's for the rest of his life and monitored to make sure he takes them. But then SSRI's have what - 33% better success rate than placebo. So better yet, make him go for monthly checkups with a psychiatrist to see how he's doing.

[Brenda]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Are you and Brenda saying that everytime your senile old uncle wanders out in the front yard naked or shoplifts some tin foil to protect himself from alien brain waves they should be arrested and serve out a criminal sentence?

Huh? Where did you get THAT idea?
I guess murder is not an important CRIME to you. So noted.

Peeps, murder on. BF just decided it is equivalent to stealing candy. NO charges! WHOOHOO!!!

[raydan]

What percent of accuracy would people here put on the science of psychiatry?
Replace "accuracy" with "knowledge" if you prefer.

[andyt]

You've probably got PMS anyway, so you get a pass. Like that English woman who ran over her boyfriend with her car. 3 times.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

You've probably got PMS anyway, so you get a pass. Like that English woman who ran over her boyfriend with her car. 3 times.

Oh, yeah, right. Cool. Anyone want to meet my knife/car/Angry Birds?

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

You're drawing an equivilancy between shoplifting and murder? Where's sandorski when we need him? If that senile old uncle is grabbing at the little kids that walk by, then you bet I want him locked up where he can't do it again. I'm not big on punishment anyway, I'm big on keeping society safe.

You should be old enough to have noticed how poor psychiatry is at predicting human behavior. There are no actual physical tests to indicate this guy is "cured". Depression we know is very often a recurring illness. If this guy gets so depressed over a divorce that he goes psychotic, what other life's stressors are going to send him over the edge? At the very least, he should be put on SSRI's for the rest of his life and monitored to make sure he takes them. But then SSRI's have what - 33% better success rate than placebo. So better yet, make him go for monthly checkups with a psychiatrist to see how he's doing.

What I don't really get is that this was a double murder. Of his own kids. Why isn't that mandatory life? In a psych institution, and when considered cured, general population in jail?

[andyt]

Because we have this silly idea that he's not criminally responsible at the time of murder but can be all better a year later. You kill, at the very least you should be watched for the rest of your life, and with certain restrictions put on your life too. Like for this guy, maybe not to be around children, and that he can't produce any of his own. Like I say, PCP can make you go crazy too, possibly even LSD - if he murders and then stops taking it, he's cured and good to go, right?

[BeaverFever]

I just think that either they're capable of comprehending their crime or they're not. From that perspective, there's no difference how serious the crime happened to be. Do you think a lunatic who constantly steals electronics items worth tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars to build an alien time machine should be punished more severely than if he stole items worth only a couple of bucks? One is a more serious criminal offence than the other but it doesn't make a difference, does it?

Yeah, put the uncle in an institution, not prison. And if he's ever cured of his disease, release him.

[Brenda]

The one stealing did not rob 2 innocent CHILDREN (hellooooooo, comprehension issues???) of their lives.
2 CHILDREN ARE DEAD.
That FACT should go unpunished because he was "not in the right state of mind"? You BET he was not. NO MURDERER IS. Let them all walk! Who cares!

[andyt]

I told you, I'm not big on punishment anyway. I'm big on protecting society and rehabilitation. The uncle can't be rehabilitated. If what he does is a minor annoyance, let him be. If it's more than that, institutionalize him.

I think this transient psychosis stuff is a bit of bullshit. As Brenda points out, it probably applies to most murders that aren't deliberate hits. And, if someone can coldly kill for profit, I think that's insane anyway. And as I pointed out, drugs can cause temporary psychosis. I don't think any of that is a reason to give somebody what amounts to a free pass.

[Brenda]

There are a lot of people who never committed a crime in mental institutions. And rightfully so, they need the treatment, the help.

[andyt]

They're a danger to themselves or others. This guy has shown himself to be such - killing his own children because of depression. When will he snap again. Now, we can say that about all of us, all of us can be pushed to the wall. But until we have a Minority Report situation, we'll just have to go by people's past actions rather than what they might do.

[BeaverFever]

andyt andyt:

I told you, I'm not big on punishment anyway. I'm big on protecting society and rehabilitation. The uncle can't be rehabilitated. If what he does is a minor annoyance, let him be. If it's more than that, institutionalize him.

I think this transient psychosis stuff is a bit of bullshit. As Brenda points out, it probably applies to most murders that aren't deliberate hits. And, if someone can coldly kill for profit, I think that's insane anyway. And as I pointed out, drugs can cause temporary psychosis. I don't think any of that is a reason to give somebody what amounts to a free pass.

IFthe uncle can't be rehabilitated, then he should not be released fromthe institution. But if stem cell research finds a cure for alzheimers or senility or whatever disorder he has, and the guy suddenly regains his marbles, then there's no reason for him to be in the insitution or prison.

The law makes a distinction between not understanding what you've done and simply not caring about what you've done. The latter most likely WOULD be criminally tried and sentenced. It's quite another thing from someone who is suffering from severe delusions and halluciations, disrupted thought patterns, etc.