[bootlegga]

ridenrain ridenrain:

All the green you can buy as long as it's made in China.

$1:

Chinese role in wind farm creates anger
By Tom Zeller Jr Nov 01 2009

News last week of the first major influx of Chinese capital and wind turbine manufacturing expertise into the renewable energy market in the United States—a600-megawatt wind farm planned for the plains of west Texas—had many readers of the Green Inc. blog in a state of agitation.

‘‘I don’t understand why China is exporting wind energy to the U.S.,’’ wrote Mark from New York City. ‘‘Isn’t this exactly the kind of project a United States company could and should be doing?’’ Another reader—Drew from Boston —was more blunt: ‘‘Again, China is playing the West for a sucker,’’ he wrote. ‘‘We send them our engineering, they get the manufacturing work and experience.’’ The details of the deal known so far: Contingent on financing from Chinese commercial banks—and no small measure of funding from the U.S. economic stimulus package—A-Power Energy Generation Systems, a Nasdaqlisted company based in the Chinese industrial city of Shenyang, would provide 240 of its 2.5-megawatt wind turbines for a 36,000-acre, or 14,600- hectare, utility-scale wind farm in west Texas to be operated by Cielo Wind Power, a developer based in Austin.

The total cost of the project, which was brokered in part by the U.S. Renewable Energy Group, an American private equity company, was estimated at $1.5 billion. At an event after the announcement in Washington on Thursday, Cappy McGarr, a managing partner at the company, was beaming.

‘‘This planned $1.5 billion investment in wind energy will spur tremendous growth in the renewable energy sector,’’ Mr. McGarr was quoted in a news release as saying, ‘‘and directly create hundreds of high-paying American jobs.’’ The devil, though—as many observers pointed out by the end of the week — is in the details.

The group’s calculations last week put the number of American jobs at a little more than 300—most of them temporary construction jobs, along with about 30 permanent positions once the wind farm is operating. Mr.

McGarr told The Wall Street Journal that more than 2,000 Chinese jobs would be created by the deal.

That, along with the fact that the project was hoping to secure 30 percent, or $450 million, of its financing from U.S. stimulus funds, was enough to send tempers flaring.

‘‘Why are U.S. stimulus funds being used to subsidize manufacturing jobs in China,’’ wrote a reader at Green Inc., who pointed out that American officials had repeatedly warned that the United States could lose its competitive edge on renewable energy manufacturing to China.

And yet, he continued, ‘‘the federal government gives stimulus monies to subsidize a project buying turbines made in China. Why?’’ Part of the agitation almost certainly arises from China’s own reputation for green protectionism.

As Keith Bradsher wrote earlier this year in The New York Times, by establishing prohibitive quotas for homegrown solar and wind turbine equipment, and disqualifying bids from foreign companies on dubious grounds, the Chinese leadership has muscled out American and European manufacturers of clean energy seeking to gain a foothold in China’s burgeoning market for renewables.

As it happens, American officials made inroads in combating such trade barriers during a meeting of the U.S.- China Joint Commission on Commerce and Trade in Hangzhou, China, last week. Among the outcomes of the meeting: China agreed to remove localcontent requirements on wind turbines.

Still, with the American economy struggling to get back on its feet and with an analysis last week from The Associated Press suggesting that the White House may be guilty of overstating the number of American jobs its $787 billion stimulus package has so far created, news that a Texas wind farm would create thousands of green jobs in China was, for some, a bitter pill.

‘‘Thank you for killing the U.S. windmill industry,’’ wrote a reader from Chicago at Green Inc. ‘‘Thank-you, U.S.

industrialists and financiers, for having us buy these things with financing and grants emanating from money borrowed from China.’’ The deal, however, was no surprise to Russ Choma, a reporter with the Investigative Reporting Workshop, a nonprofit investigative journalism project attached to the American University School of Communication in Washington.

In a somewhat intriguing coincidence of timing, Mr. Choma and his colleagues published, on the same day the Chinese-American wind farm deal was unveiled, a detailed analysis of where stimulus money aimed at creating renewable energy projects and jobs in the United States was flowing.

By Mr. Choma’s reckoning, 84 percent of the $1.05 billion in clean-energy grants distributed by the government since Sept. 1 has gone to foreign renewable energy companies—specifically, wind companies. Through its American subsidiary, Iberdrola, a global manufacturer of wind turbines based in Spain, commanded most of that funding: $545 million.

‘‘We broke down some of the numbers and found out that the program funded 11 projects that installed 982 turbines,’’ Mr. Choma wrote in an email message, ‘‘and 695 were built by foreign manufacturers.’’ To some extent, this is hardly surprising.

As Mr. Choma noted, the American clean energy manufacturing base—particularly its wind turbine production capability — is tiny compared with that of Europe.

And to be sure, the dispensation of the $22 billion in stimulus funding that is supposed to go toward renewable energy projects has only just begun.

But China’s foray into the American wind power market comes alongside its dominance of the solar panel manufacturing industry, in which 95 percent of total output is exported to the United States and Europe.

And as Mr. Choma noted, when it comes to stimulating the economy, it is the manufacturing that matters. He points to a 2004 study from the Renewable Energy Policy Project, a research institute based in Washington. The institute found that every 1,000 megawatts of installed wind capacity had the potential to generate as many as 4,300 jobs, of which about 3,000 are created at the manufacturing level.

These are not consumer products who's low cost is the driving factor. These are government make-work projects to stimulate the economy. Refusing to buy American made is an insult to every American taxpayer.

You really should read the articles you dig up better...sounds like it more like all the green you can buy as long as its Spanish. Your hatred of China blinds you yet again to the truth in your own article...

[ridenrain]

bootlegga bootlegga:

I would have thought you'd be happy at this, because now China can 'green' its energy industry and maybe stop polluting the environment so much. Should have figured that nothing they will ever do will be good enough for you.

My guess is that you've been spurned by one too many Chinese women and now take out your anger on the nation as a whole...

Dance puppet dance..

Do you approve of the US having to buy all it's wind and solar power from China?

I'm sorry. I guess that was too embarassing for you to answer. you can go back to your personal attacks and cheerleading if you'd rather.

[bootlegga]

ridenrain ridenrain:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I would have thought you'd be happy at this, because now China can 'green' its energy industry and maybe stop polluting the environment so much. Should have figured that nothing they will ever do will be good enough for you.

My guess is that you've been spurned by one too many Chinese women and now take out your anger on the nation as a whole...

Dance puppet dance..

Do you approve of the US having to buy all it's wind and solar power from China?

I'm sorry. I guess that was too embarassing for you to answer. you can go back to your personal attacks and cheerleading if you'd rather.

First off, someone has to build it if the Americans themselves can't or won't.

Secondly, once again, from YOUR own article...

ridenrain ridenrain:

All the green you can buy as long as it's made in China.

By Mr. Choma’s reckoning, 84 percent of the $1.05 billion in clean-energy grants distributed by the government since Sept. 1 has gone to foreign renewable energy companies—specifically, wind companies.

Through its American subsidiary, Iberdrola, a global manufacturer of wind turbines based in Spain, commanded most of that funding: $545 million.

Sounds like it ain't only China supplying the US with wind turbines...but you'd know that because you always thoroughly read the anti-China vitriol you post, right?

By my calculations, that means that roughly $882 million (84% of the 1.05 billion) has gone to foreign companies, with Spain pulling in $545 million of that (61.8%), so the argument that 'China' is stealing jobs is BS. But that's usually the case with your anti-China posts.

[ridenrain]

Your just dodging the question.

Do you approve of the US having to buy all it's wind and solar power from China?

Wasn't the whole purpose of the stimulus money to buy and develop jobs here?
Wasn't Obama's big campaign to develop "green" jobs here?

[OldChum]

Sad to say but the Americans are far behind in this area thanks to the lobby efforts of oil and atomic power. For that matter so are we there is alot of jobs to be had but the majority in Canada are located in Quebec the last I heard . Here in Manitoba our goverment is to consumed in Hydroelectric power, without looking at all the alternatives

[ridenrain]

I was also reading about the San Francisco Bay bridge refit that was held up because, among other things, shoddy welding and product quality from Chinese parts.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... ierandross

[OldChum]

Eh no doubt look at the quality of the goods and most of them are crap that come here. But thanks to Walmart it is what we get now it seems . After all they could produce it at the cost Walmart wanted .

[Proculation]

People have to understand that we are not longer a manufacturing society in the West. We are an economy of services and technologies. I don't see any problem with that if China is able to manufacture the technologies are better cost and at a good quality. Why pay more ?

[ridenrain]

I see no reason that we are, or should give up on manufacture in North America.
Why should we willingly surrender an industry we lead in, to others?

[Proculation]

ridenrain ridenrain:

I see no reason that we are, or should give up on manufacture in North America.
Why should we willingly surrender an industry we lead in, to others?

If we lead in it, why are the Chineses getting the contract ? I'm pretty happy we changed our shitty manufacturing jobs to services ones.

[OldChum]

I tend to agree not every one is meant to work tech jobs we should keep the skills alive and not be so beholding to them China . After all many trades have gone away over the last few years , and lots of people have lost their jobs to overseas production .

[ridenrain]

Proculation Proculation:

I'm pretty happy we changed our shitty manufacturing jobs to services ones.

.. and with that they were doomed to become a nation of waitresses and waiters.

[Proculation]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Proculation Proculation:

I'm pretty happy we changed our shitty manufacturing jobs to services ones.

.. and with that they were doomed to become a nation of waitresses and waiters.

Tell that to Google or RIM employees. Services is much more than waitresses and hot dogs cookers. They are project managers, psychiatrists, accountants, real estaters, etc.

[ridenrain]

.. or to all the Microsoft employees who were outsourced to China, India or Indonesia?
Manufacturing built this nation and to believe all the skilled tradesmen are going to work in coffee shops or start home day cares is silly. The manufacture and sale of products provides weath generation far beyond everyone doing some body elses laundry. Just like the auto and aerospace industry, we need to have an alternative to foreign dependancy.

[Proculation]

ridenrain ridenrain:

.. or to all the Microsoft employees who were outsourced to China, India or Indonesia?
Manufacturing built this nation and to believe all the skilled tradesmen are going to work in coffee shops or start home day cares is silly. The manufacture and sale of products provides weath generation far beyond everyone doing some body elses laundry. Just like the auto and aerospace industry, we need to have an alternative to foreign dependancy.

Well at least you are right in one thing: manufacturing indeed builds the economy. Primary economy, secondary economy and then tertiary economy. Look at Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. Not long ago they were manufacturing our shitty things. Now their economy is bigger and they moved to another type of economy. A more productive one. That's the way it is. Always going to a more productive economy. That's growth and without it we would still be in the industrial age mining coal.

What do you prefer: sewing t-shirts for pennies or creating the next mobile software for hundreds of thousands ?

As for the basic services jobs, they are starter jobs mostly occupied by student and people without studies. Not common people.